“SUPPORT THE FUCKING PUBLISHERS!”

Pixiv

You know what, I am sick of moralfags looking down on people because they read scanlations online. More than 60% of scanlations probably don’t have even have an English market, and the English market wouldn’t even have existed if not for scanlations.

I am sick of moralfags preaching about buying original merchandise of a certain area when they themselves pirate almost everything else. Then they also look down on people for reading scanlations online.

I am sick of the whole “TEH INDUSTRY IS DYING BECUZ PEOPLE STEAL STUFF FROM THE INTERWEBS!” gospel. God knows the industry wouldn’t have actually come this far without the Internet acting as a catalyst to spread it further.

I am sick of outdated Intellectual Property laws that seem to protect the creators but are actually used to enrich the rights-holders (in many cases the recording/publishing/production company) without ACTUALLY fairly giving the REAL creators their share.

I am sick of the moralfags that just pretty much act like asses just because their buying power is greater than people in third world countries without any regard for how much inequalities exist in the world economy.

Fuck all these. I do and will continue to buy original merchandise that I deem worthy enough to justify the enormous expense. Otherwise I am quite comfortable with reading scanlations and watching fansubs/raws as they come off the Internet. If there’s anything really good, then I WILL SUPPORT THE FUCKING INDUSTRY EVEN IF IT’S GOING TO COST ME HALF A MONTH’S WORTH OF LUNCH MONEY. I’m not just gonna crawl under a fucking rock just because I don’t have enough money to BUY EVERY FUCKING CONTENT I CONSUME.

Otherwise, fuck off and get the fuck off your fucking high horse before you start preaching about SUPPORTING THE FUCKING INDUSTRY. Are you even sure you’re not consuming any illegal content at all? Think about it, moralfags.

</rant>

98 Comments

  1. kudos Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 3:46 pm

    exactly how i feel, including the profanity used to describe :)

  2. Nestor Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 3:47 pm

    DrmChsr0:

    Most of the big shots in the industry still follow the oldschool way of sales: book sales. Most of them probably don’t even realize the potential the internet provide. And then there are those who just like the good old ways and are afraid of the new business model.

    Here’s an idea:
    1. Make an official online reader site that serves as a preview.
    2. Show all the story pages but not the bonuses, omake, commentaries and stuff.
    3. Make sure it’s properly translated (at least to english) with no translation loss, especially the jokes and cultural references.
    4. Put up a link for users to buy the actual volume, which will be of better picture quality as well as having the previously mentioned bonuses.
    5. When you’ve make sure that the customers have a comfortable and legal way to enjoy your product, then you can start the witch hunt.

  3. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 3:51 pm

    @Nestor: It’s amazingly funny that I actually thought of that same idea about two years ago and even recommended it to a local artist as a business model. Too bad it didn’t seem like it amounted to much.

    BTW, said local artist was quite pissed at how his company practically owned all the copyrights to his work and paid him a FIXED salary, regardless of his output/popularity. Sometimes, the industry just doesn’t deserve to be supported.

  4. Nestor Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 3:58 pm

    Well the idea WAS based on a project a fellow programmer once did. Of course since the site back then just contains local comics (which predictably isn’t too profitable) and has yet to establish connections with big time publishers and stores, the effectiveness is yet to be seen. Haven’t heard from him for a while, though…

  5. Honoo Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 3:59 pm

    Hmm.

    I’m too lazy to think too hard about these kinds of stuff since I’m not in the most right of my position to even say anything, but the whole ordeal feels to me like this:

    I can’t afford to go and buy a book I want to read. But there’s a library near me which has that book, so I go there and read it there.

    Suddenly the publishers of the book either asks the library to take it down, shut down or face lawsuit because they are losing profits – why? Because everyone goes there to go read that book and not buy from them instead. Everyone, as in from cheapskates to rich bastards who spend like no tomorrow.

    It somehow feels absurd in my opinion.

  6. DrmChsr0 Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

    SO JEALOUS~

    Nestor: So basically, Steam for anime/manga?

    I thought I mentioned it on my b log already.

  7. Nestor Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 4:06 pm

    @DrmChsr0: I’m sorry, but I don’t exactly know the details on how Steam usually works (I mostly play games at a friends place, and those are consoles)

    @Honoo: I don’t know if it’s the right analogy, I just remembered that I haven’t been to a library for a long time :((

  8. i0taku Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 7:29 pm

    HEAR, HEAR!

    All I have to say to those people is; ‘I would if I could, I would if I could.’ How the heck is a UK-based 12 year old anime/manga fan who watches 10-15 series a month going to afford all the merchandise, visual novels, books, boxsets etc. etc. that she wants, not to mention even find somewhere to buy half that stuff?! Some people need to be more considerate and think about the people they’re yelling at before they say anything. >.>

  9. Deviance Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 7:45 pm

    Question: If it’s really harming the industry as much as those faggots say they are, why are they still there?

    Oh I know, because the fucking industry (atleast in Japan as far as I know) themselves know that all that shit are actually BOOSTING their products. So who exactly is harming the industry?

  10. Shuryou Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 7:48 pm

    First thing that comes into my mind:

    Subbing and scanning groups made such anime/manga more popular since the release of that anime/manga. Without those groups, I don’t know how anime communities will survive on buying overpriced (imo) english version DVDs or the real manga copies. So think, if those groups were somehow abolished from the internetz, what would happen to the majority of the community who support subbing? I’m thinking the law doesn’t really work against these subbing groups, but like you said, there are those moralfags. Just thinking out loud.

  11. ahelo Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 7:55 pm

    youd have a lot of fun in ANN forums. Everyone there’s a moralfag.

  12. CaptainBright Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 9:36 pm

    @ahelo

    And that is why some of us don’t head there often: It’s filled with white knights and moralfags. And people with a better pay to cost ratio.

  13. Nanatsuya Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 9:42 pm

    ANN is the second worst anime site on the web. Their forums are filled with cult-ish fandom filth of the highest caliber. Just as their writers are obviously sucking off the corporate teat of every company willing to send them freebies, the regulars on their forums eagerly lap up the verbal vomit and beg for more.

  14. Zi Densetsu Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 10:18 pm

    Amen is all that needs to be said.

  15. relentlessflame Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 10:39 pm

    @Kurogane:
    As you might expect, the actual amount they’re making from ads is hard to come by. But there was this little comment that came up a few times a few months back: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=926406#926406

    If the people running these sites think they can sell these sites for tens of millions of dollars, there’s certainly something lucrative about it. The simple fact that they *could* “sell the business” and cash-out is, itself, a big problem. If he did sell the company, I’m not thinking any of that money would end up in any publisher’s hands…

    The original article for that thread is also revealing: OneManga alone had 4.2 million uniques and 1.1 billion page views back then. That’s just… staggering. And this for a site, it should be mentioned, that was certainly listing licensed works alongside the unlicensed stuff. When you have that sort of traffic, that’s when the advertising model starts to become lucrative enough to make a difference. Note that not only did they have ads on their site, but I would often see ads for OneManga on *other* sites, which certainly implies that a business model is at play. (Whether ad brokers like Google should permit websites offering illegal content to participate in their ad network is another question…)

    So, anyway… I guess draw your own conclusions. Personally, while I can be sympathetic to individual fans, I have little sympathy for these websites, and I think this whole issue has a lot more to do with the latter than the former.

  16. DrmChsr0 Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 10:57 pm

    SO JEALOUS~

    Nestor: Steam is, in a nutshell, an online game shop. You download and install one tiny program (the Steam console) and you have access to so many games your credit card weeps at the prospect of it getting reamed in the ass. Considering how Steam can get away with their crazy sales, NOT MAKE HALF-LIFE 2 EPISODE 3, and stil rake in a fair profit (people actually pay for this, and thank Steam profusely) while benefitting the developers (there’s a bunch of indie games on it too), while incorporating videos and art (mostly game videos and Penny Arcade), i’s more or less the perfect system for the entitlement generation.

    It’s more or less the perfect system for delivering media of any sort. (Non-DRM, of course. Steam itself adds a lot to the game bloat, so to speak.)

  17. CaptainBright Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 11:02 pm

    @Nanatsuya

    While I do hate a majority of A.N.N. itself, some of the dudes there like Erin and Mike are still awesome. Zac? Not so much.

  18. Nestor Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 11:03 pm

    @DrmChsr0

    Just to clarify, do customers still buy the CD/DVD? Because from what I’ve read big time publishers had a great fear for non-hardcopy product designs, since that would mean that they would have nothing to publish. That’s actually one of the (secret) main issues…

  19. DrmChsr0 Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 11:23 pm

    Nestor: Well, no, but the system does work.Thing is, there’s no CD/DVD to mess around with. But for some reason, it works. People are willing to pay for the convenience of not having CDs. And I assume it’s a lot of people.

  20. Nestor Said,

    July 28, 2010 @ 11:39 pm

    Well the problem is not with the customer, it’s with the publisher. Like I said, if they do it the Steam way they might as well cease being a publishing company. Unlike game companies, publishing companies are not familiar with softcopy products…

    “4. Put up a link for users to buy the actual volume, which will be of better picture quality as well as having the previously mentioned bonuses.”

    The actual volume is write here means hardcopies. It’s basically a win-win deal; customer can get an overview on the story, publisher still publishes something. Easier to implement on short term than the Steam-style solution

  21. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 12:20 am

    @ahelo: I don’t have enough lives to lose inside that place.

    @relentlessflame: LOL, so that’s the best proof you got? A forum post? Still makes it hard to believe without authenticated numbers.

    IMHO, the numbers prove there is a huge potential market for manga via digital distribution. Tell me, how many percent of the titles available in OneManga are legally English-licensed? Then tell me as well how many percentage of the visitors are from the US. I’ll eat my shoes if both are over 50%. Publishers should instead look at how OneManga’s business model is -actually- successful enough to garner that much hits and learn how to monetize it instead.

    Anyways, I just don’t understand your bone to pick with them about ad revenue. Ads are ads, people click on them voluntarily more or less. Sure OneManga is not exactly a very legitimate example as a ad monetization success story, but people should LEARN from how it’s being done, not crush it down to pieces. From my point of view, you’re just being jealous of them.

    @DrmChsr0: Steam still has a lot to improve on actually, it’s not perfect yet. But it’s got a lot of things going on right and that’s why it is currently the industry’s model to follow. Not to mention they are a company with heart too. Look at the recent fiasco about VAC unfairly banning MW2 players on Steam due to a glitch. What Valve did was not only to fix it, they admitted it, revealed the root cause and GAVE AWAY 2 copies of L4D2 for FREE to each player that was affected. That’s really a lesson for other companies to follow.

    @Nestor: The majority of people who would use Steam don’t really care about hard copies. Steam offers a lot more convenience to offset the lack of hard-copies. But of course they do integrate hard copies with Steam. Any Valve game you buy on the shelf will require a Steam account and they will give you a CD-Key to associate with it. Of course, this means you can’t resell your games, but I’ve never actually regretted that at all.

    In fact, of all my Steam games, I only own two on official hard copies, The Orange Box (gift) and L4D2 (because it was cheaper locally on launch than the US RRP). Also Steam offers you the ability to backup all game data as an image file that you can archive on any media of choice either CD, DVD or external HDD, if you don’t feel like redownloading your games everytime you wipe you PC or move to a different/new one. All you just need to remember is your Steam username and password and keep that safe.

    You won’t believe how convenient it is until you use it. Steam has made me spent more on games in the past 2 years of me using it than the first 17 years of my life before I did. As I said, 600USD worth of purchases from poor lil’ me is proof enough it works.

  22. Nestor Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 12:32 am

    Yes, I believe the steam concept is very convenient…for software distribution. We’re also talking about book publishers, whose main product has always been, well, books. Unlike the software industry, which had a long experience with online distribution (patch, antivirus updates, downloadable contents), the closest interaction book publishers had with the internet is probably amazon style marketing. They had the printing machines as well as other printing stuff already running for long, and suddenly changing to selling e-books requires total system re-engineering which will cost a lot. There must be a transition phase for this kind of revolution…

  23. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 12:36 am

    @Nestor: That’s understandable.

    Problem is, the industry is reluctant to move forward. And really, there’s no such thing as purely book publishers nowadays I would say. Most are already part of media-conglomerates that should be rightly referred to as content publishers.

    All they need to do is really to take the first step and focus on the long-term. But many companies are just too short-sighted or unwilling to take such a big leap in to the unknown without justification towards their investors and stockholders.

    This world needs a revolution.

  24. NovaJinx Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 12:39 am

    @Kurogane

    REVALUSHAN BROTHER! TO THE BARRICADES, MY FRIENDS!

  25. Nestor Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 12:48 am

    “But many companies are just too short-sighted or unwilling to take such a big leap in to the unknown without justification towards their investors and stockholders.

    This world needs a revolution.”

    Yup, I think that’s the main problem: fear of change. Understandable but stupid. Just like the infamous quote “I think the world has room for, at most, five computers” back then. History repeats.

  26. relentlessflame Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 1:17 am

    @Kurogane:
    Well, it is a forum post by the Editor in Chief of ANN, so it carries a bit more weight than “some guy on the Internet”. Because these aren’t public companies, it’s very difficult to get “authenticated numbers”, since no one’s under any obligation to release them.

    Anyway, to the rest all I’ll say is that it’s easy to make money when your licensing costs are zero, you can take all the world’s best content without considering who owns it or has the rights to it, and you get to keep all the resulting revenue. That sort of arrangement simply isn’t possible if you’re trying to do things legitimately, and for pretty obvious reasons. I understand from your previous comments that you have other views as to why this should or should not matter, but it is the situation we’re in at the moment.

    When someone is profiting off of illegally-begotten goods, I would think concern is justified and isn’t a sign of “jealousy”. No matter what, it’s clear that the industry needs to figure out its digital distribution strategy as quickly as possible in order to meet the rather obvious demand. But all I’m saying is that I don’t feel at all sorry for the companies/sites that get put out of business along the way; when your business plan is to make money doing illegal things, you always run the risk of getting caught or shut down. This is totally separate from the argument over whether scanlations are good, bad, or indifferent.

    Anyway, I know you just wanted to rant against moralfags, and this isn’t directly related to that issue in one way or another. But it is, I feel, an important tangential issue that needs to be mentioned as people consider why the industry is beginning to take action now.

  27. Nestor Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 1:31 am

    @relentlessflame: Just because there’s no licensing fee doesn’t mean that there’s no maintenance cost, you know. Especially one to store all those mangas. Until someone show me the exact details on how much of the income goes to maintenance and how much goes as profit, I decline to believe that onemanga and others “reap the benefit without cost” as you imply…

  28. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 1:39 am

    @relentlessflame: Great! I’m glad to see you didn’t get sidetracked and forgot the original purpose of this post. Pretty sure a lot of seem to have mistook me for being anti-industry or something.

    But honestly, I would take anything in a forum post in ANN with a healthy pinch of salt.

    That said, whether it’s morally or ethically wrong for aggregator sites to profit from ad revenue depends on the one’s own beliefs. For one thing, the concept of monetization from ads is pretty much what drives the expansion of Internet content-creation culture, social media marketing etc.etc. If you are condemning them on the basis of generating a profit from ads, then you are condemning pretty much the entire Web 2.0.

    If I start blaming OneManga for profiting from ad revenue, it would just make me a damn hypocrite myself since this blog also depends on ads to survive. And by extension, visitors and commentators to my blog, like you, would also be guilty too if I ‘profited’, isn’t it?

    Ad revenue is one thing, but in the end, aggregator sites like OM and MF aren’t DIRECTLY profiting from putting up scanlations for people to read. And that’s all that matters to me. Sites like Narutofan that CHARGE people for reading FREE scanlations and even stealing them, are the real offenders that publishers should be going after. Those people are scum and there’s probably a special circle in Hell reserved for them.

  29. Haesslich Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 2:41 am

    The issue is also one of control -no matter how much the RIAA claims lawsuits against Napster and file sharers “fixed” the music piracy issue, it was iTunes and the lack of extremely restrictive DRM that did it -and won Apple the music market which resulted in a loss of control. Easy to buy, not tied to a single use on a single device forever… the ability to move files yo our upgraded device without painful steps, and reasonable pricing. All things the music industry and the movie industry are trying to kill, as it affects their scavenger business models.

    The manga publishers and book publishers are afraid of this loss of control over what viewers get, and the loss of the ability to set price and to force you to pay forever for content (manga magazines need this to survive, as tankubon volumes aren’t a constant revenue stream for anyone), which is why they’re on the crusade. Now if they’d gone after the pay sites FIRST, we might actually be targeting the right people…

  30. relentlessflame Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 2:46 am

    @Kurogane:
    To be clear, I don’t think profiting from ads is wrong in the slightest — as you say, so much of the Internet and really media in general is based around that concept. But the reason they get the ad revenue is entirely because of the illegal material they use to attract traffic. I personally don’t think it’s really all that different from the likes of Narutofan; the only difference is in the perception. One party is charging directly for the service, and the other is making money indirectly off the same service. Either way, money is being made off of illegal content. In a weird sort of way, you could almost say that the direct approach is more “honest” — I mean, many people will agree that it’s wrong on the face of it. But in this case, just because it’s indirect, people tend to overlook it and assume it’s no big deal.

    @Nestor:
    To be clear, I’m sure they do have some maintenance costs. What they don’t have are any royalty or licensing costs.

    Really, “storing all those mangas” costs very little, and bandwidth is cheap and constantly dropping in price. Even if you high-ball it, 1.1 billion page views at, let’s say, 400 KB per page at Amazon EC2’s rate of $0.08/GB is around $35,000 in bandwidth. To handle that much traffic they’ll need a small server farm (maybe 10 servers or so?), so I guess add another $10,000/month or so for that. Factor in paying a few people for their time, and let’s say the costs are in the range of $60,000/month. Obviously I don’t know the exact costs, but this seems reasonable given the figures we have.

    Figuring out how much they might be making off of AdSense is a bit tricky, but there are a number of articles like this one (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/plentyoffish_one_billion.php) that may give a benchmark. The site in that article had 1.2 billion views/month, with 500 thousand unique logins/day, and they claimed to be making $10,000/day off of AdSense. OneManga was at 1.1 billion views with 4.2 million uniques/month according to Google, so a little bit lower, but suffice it to say it should still be significantly more than enough to cover their costs. Even if they were making $5000/day off of ads (half of the aforementioned site), that’d be $90,000/month in profit.

    Obviously, I know those are just estimates and it’s useless without the very facts that are hard to come by. But it does give something to think about, anyway.

  31. Wolfsschanze Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 4:16 am

    dear all,

    i have been a lurker on kurogane’s anime blog, enjoying wholeheartedly the more usual light-hearted posts on anime, but this particular post prompts me to give my own contributions for once.

    do agree w kurogane’s stance on moralfags, but i think that as anime/manga fans in general, it would be better to adopt a more objective perspective with regards to the mechanisms of the industry and maybe explore what is plausible.

    in today’s globalised world, like it or not, we have to face up to the fact that like global-warming, piracy is a collective-action problem, and therefore also one this is unlikely to go away. the invention of the internet in the late 20th century only compounded this phenomenon.

    it’s economics 101 that (just ask horo!) as the price of a product rises, its demand falls whilst its supply rises. it is also a mathematical truism that the revenue from a product equals to its price times its quantity sold. considering the likelihood that the industry survives purely by maximising its profits, it could theoretically profit from this own internet piracy business, namely by:
    1. relying on scanlations, fansubs, music torrents etc. to increase awareness of the original manga, anime, soundtracks, i.e. to increase demand
    2. and then to provide something actually different (or just at least better) from the originals to boost their sales (heck, even lowering their price could count!)
    3. minimzing cost on advertisements by making use of the internet, and even relying upon the active anime blogosphere

    i do think that most of us out here appreciate fansubs and scanlations for giving us at least free previews. we certainly wouldn’t mind buying things we truly like, but neither would we wish to buy crap.

    also, it is not generally plausible to wish for a world where the creators get all the benefits, and no publishers exist. this is because the latter and not the former are experts in their jobs, and it is only because of publishing that these creators can even survive. yeah they do get less of the $$, but it is either that or none, so the choice is obvious.

    lastly, one other point i would like to make is that we shouldn’t see this own issue as a battle between the producers (publishers and/or to a lesser extent, original creators) and the consumers (fansubbers, scanlators, people who read manga and watch anime), for that would lead us to nowhere. nowhere in terms of the interests of the producers (to earn profits and hence by implication to ensure the industry continues), and also the consumers (to enjoy good anime and good manga at reasonable prices, and hence by implication also to ensure the industry continues!)

    sadly to say, some of these suppliers (odex for one) are taking the battle route, issuing C&D etc. i don’t think that is the wise thing to do, maybe because i am a consumer and i do enjoy pirated stuff! nah, but actually because i don’t think it actually helps to stamp out piracy (for it can never be done), and makes people like kurogane (and the thousands others) more pissed off to even contemplate buying their licensed stuff. i would like to end my mini-rant here by acknowledging a point jason miao made on his blog maybe a few months ago. cooperation and not conflict between consumers and producers ought to be the way forward. use fansubs and scanlations to increase awareness of products. actually sell products that have features that cannot be pirated, together with the original piece. use anime blogs to help spread the word. ACTUALLY SELL GOOD STUFF, instead of epic fail-subs etc. then maybe we would see some improvement in the situation. like it or not, publishers AND piracy are not going to go away; we should just find some way of living with each other, or risk all dying out together.

  32. Reason Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 6:23 am

    SPREAD THE WORD PREACHERMAN!

    Anyway, if you make a good comic be it manga or otherwise, you’ll drag attention. If it’s good (as in you’ve got some serious content going and can churn out at least a couple of updates a week (even if it’s just a single page)) you can easily get 100k+ unique readers a month (I’m talking bare minimum here – and a one man operation > it would scale perfectly well with more people). . If you keep it up you can live perfectly well off merchandise and ad revenue. And that’s without actually having an intelligent business plan.
    I swear to the heavens that there’s not a single manga currently being scanlated that couldn’t thrive on this business model. And sure, you can throw up that few webcomics can supportive themselves, and that’s true, but very few webcomics are consistent with their updates, have decent art or ‘give it their all’ (mostly it’s just an untalented tech kid’s sidejob). The ones who try their best can survive and usually those haven’t even got professional drawing experience. If professional mangaka give it a shot they could certainly pull it off. And frankly, from what I’ve read, the majority of them aren’t all that wealthy (understatement much). So a ‘slow start’ shouldn’t be that much of a brick wall.

    People all over the world spend hours traversing the web in search of entertainment. When they’re not giggling at silly webcomics or hot-blooded anime shows they’re doing their serious office jobs and raking in dough by programming shitty neural nets (yours truly). Their time is valuable so they choose the places they spend their time at wisely…as such those places gain value and it’s perfectly possible to monetize off of it.

  33. CaptainBright Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 9:54 am

    Seriously, at this point, I’m just waiting to see whether this post can ever reach triple digit status only.

    Instead of flaming moralfags and white knights, this has turned into a industry based discussion. Next thing you know, Kuro starts flaming Bleach or heaven forbid, curses Negima, the comments in here might even rival that of sites which criticise Final Fantasy 13……

  34. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 1:32 pm

    @CaptainBright: Unlikely, judging from the pace now. And it’s inevitable this will turn in to an industry-based discussion, since that’s the elephant in the room right now. At least this is a very polite and constructive one.

    Also, it’s easy for me to do a flame post and attract a few hundred angry fans. I just don’t want to sink to that level of faggotry.

    @relentlessflame: Well that’s because it’s pretty much a legitimate revenue stream despite the legality of the content of the site. Web advertisers usually don’t even care what the site is doing, as long as it gives them enough clicks.

    In the end, ad revenue is still revenue that isn’t directly tied to whatever content the site hosts. So I will respectfully decline to admonish and condemn free manga aggregator sites on the basis of them profiting from ad revenue.

    @Wolfsschanze: Your comments are very valid. In the end, all these boils down to the fact that the industry is slipping behind the technological advances and losing a golden opportunity to leverage on the Internet’s strengths.

    Instead, they take a combative approach that not only pisses off their customers, but also the creators as well. While it’s not as publicised as much as in the West, but there have been rumblings over the past few years of how publishers mistreat manga-kas and the abysmal wage scales of animators are pretty much an open figure.

    What I would really like is that the industry gets a heart and use a little bit of common sense to not just only treat their customers (potential or existing) right but give a fair compensation to the creators as well too!

  35. Haya Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 2:32 pm

    I love you.
    That attitude irks me a lot. I totally agree with you on everything you’ve said. Also, I read scanlations because, if that 60% of scanlations don’t have an English market, I’m pretty sure that like 15% are available where I live. The only manga I usually read that is translated into Spanish is Naruto, and it’s really behind. Everything else is completely unknown here. If I like something and if, miraculously, it is available here, I’ll buy it. I’m slowly but steadily getting my volumes of “Monster”. I’m currently, halfway done. And those 9 volumes are worth the money. That’s how I “support the industry”.

  36. DrmChsr0 Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

    SO JEALOUS~

    Nestor: Again, yes, video games and published works may differ in some aspects, but I don’t see how the Steam model can’t be tweaked to benefit everyone. It’s only a matter of tea, crumpets and a good talk. That is, if everyone were to be like this comments thread, thing.

    Regarding ad revenue: Hey, at least OM and MF don’t explicitly lie about where their manga came from, UNLIKE EBAUMSWORLD DOT COM. It’s also how your TV shows work, in principle.

    Regarding the industry: Speaking of which, I haven;t heard from Chuang Yi in a long, long time. Not drawing attention, asking the fans at one point what to license, and NOT GOING ON THE WARPATH…

    I wonder what happened to them. (And yes, that a SINGAPORE company).

  37. ahelo Said,

    July 29, 2010 @ 6:40 pm

    @kurogane
    HAHAHA. I actually have fun laughing at those ANN twits

  38. Fluffy Said,

    July 30, 2010 @ 9:01 pm

    You summed up my feelings in a nutshell.
    I buy what manga I like even though it puts a strain on my wallet. But, I can’t pay for every manga series I read online. That would put a strain on my wallet.

  39. Rockmanshii Said,

    July 30, 2010 @ 9:39 pm

    I love you Kurogane , You always manage to sum up all the info on the net about this “support the pubishers” etc blablabla shit and tell us the truth about it.And fast.I totally agree.

  40. Blacksun88 Said,

    July 31, 2010 @ 12:10 am

    yes!! you had voiced out everything we wanted to say correctly and accurately. fuck them!!

  41. neko Said,

    July 31, 2010 @ 4:50 am

    i agree with you 100%. fuck yea

  42. OverMaster Said,

    July 31, 2010 @ 11:15 am

    *Claps a lot crying fucking streams of fucking manly tears*

    YOU, SIR, ARE GREAT. I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER.

  43. updatedude Said,

    August 1, 2010 @ 2:11 am

    Consider this:

    I read scanlations of Yotsuba. Now, putting aside the fact that I doubt Yotsuba will ever get a decent official English release here, my point is this:

    Because I read and like Yotsuba, I bought both Yotsuba Revoltechs. Because I friggin’ loved the Danbo chapter, I also bought the Danbo Revoltech.

    I admit, I’m probably not a guy who’ll buy official manga unless it’s a) in English and it’s well done English to boot, and b) I already really like the series. BUT, insofar as the property is concerned, I probably spend more than I would, if I had just bought the series proper.

    A related example, I’m probably not going to buy any Nanoha DVDs, but heck, I’ve got the Figma Signum, Vita, GaoGaiGar-tan, Nanoha, Fate and Hayate. Between them, I’ve spent far more on the property than if I just bought the DVDs for the immensely boring StrikerS.

    So I’m not against scanlations, simply because in all honesty, the people who “steal” them simply don’t have the income to buy them anyway. And those who do have the income, wouldn’t necessarily have access to them. Or heck, if I didn’t get certain series for “free”, I wouldn’t have become a fan willing to dish out big bucks for the merch.

    Unless there’s a study, or at least a poll done to assess how much revenue is actually lost as a result of scanlations and other free media, it’s hard to sympathize, despite knowing that we’re sorta on a legal edge.

  44. riddlekiller Said,

    August 2, 2010 @ 8:33 am

    Well, they dont let us read manga online, nobody would fucking hell no their manga, popularity goes down. AND TOKYO POP i am so not going to buy your 20 over dollars manga, whoes translation isn’t that good and releases so fucking slow.
    Even the chinese versions come out faster than Tokyo Pop.
    One piece grossed out 53 million us dollars even before it came online. One piece is the most popular manga out there, why? BECAUSE IT CAME ONLINE and people could follow the story, thus continuing the anime, thus buying the products, thus letting the producers earn more money. You don’t release your products on the web, you lose out big time. I know of people who check the manga out on the web first before going to buy the manga itself. So stupid people who wanna license and remove, seriously man, their losing out a lot.

  45. Cho_Hakkai Said,

    August 6, 2010 @ 12:31 am

    I really hope that this will not become the 2nd Odex (Xedox) saga where it made almost everyone going underground and stop supporting the industry.

    In Singapore, Odex had totally stop producing (translate) the anime in DVD after all the anime fans boycott or picketing by not buying a DVD that come from Odex. This is what one of the blooger commented after the AFA09 event.

    “The anime community in now growing at a healthy pace but most of them are going underground due to Odex saga.

    As for me, I’ll really buy the product if I really like it as I’m also not rich at all. I also waiting for “Open Manga” to officially start operating. I also almost subscribe to Crunchyroll by supporting the legal way but there are too many restriction from watching the anime in that website. So, that is the push off for me in that website.

  46. ryvrdrgn14 Said,

    August 9, 2010 @ 8:32 pm

    Watch their merchandising sales and popularity drop off a cliff after they push to block all scanlated/fansubbed content off the internets.

  47. minakomel Said,

    December 8, 2010 @ 7:38 pm

    AMEN BROTHER T_T
    may I give you some advide? stop reading ANN, it will only make you sicker. You should rely on other sources of infomation.

  48. theSU Said,

    January 13, 2011 @ 12:28 am

    yeah, what you said.

    I buy DVDs and manga of stuff I like, but a) not everything I like is available in my country and b) without scanlations and whatnot I wouldn’t even buy anything, because $30 for 3-4 eps of something I don’t know if I like it… a bit expensive

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