Again your assumption that people under a Geass order are responsible for their actions is absurd. Where is your evidence that Suzaku had any free will to decide what to do when under the affect of Geass when no other character in the series was able to? Just because you think the command is different and therefore Suzaku should be responsible is unsupported in the series. Also, if you watch ep 18 of R2, you will notice that Kallen has to dodge FLEIJA so that is probably why the Geass chose to fire it in that direction.

Also, your assumption about how Suzaku blocked the memory and that is in keeping with his character is incorrect. In ep 5 of season 1, Suzaku tells Euphie that his father had to die to end the war so he obviously remembers and has been using it as a motivator for his actions up until the end of season 1 when he leaves the pocket watch with Euphie’s body. And if it is the rule that the Knight of One gets an area, who are you to say it won’t happen and would it be Suzaku’s fault that the Emperor didn’t keep his promise? And Suzaku asking to be a Knight of the Round was only a few days after Euphie’s death and Lelouch wasn’t exactly very repentant. It was cruel but in some ways justified. His dream was also completely shattered by Lelouch and he had very little left to salvage it with.

In regards to the Geass cult massacre, your reading of that incident is incorrect again. It is one thing to bomb from on high, it is another to send ground troops in and have them know that they are killing children and be ordered to do so. Lelouch told them that the cult was making immortal super soldiers and that they all needed to die for the atrocity. Any super soldier found would be captured and interrogated by Lelouch directly. Only one person would live from this order, V.V. So essentially, Lelouch picked the cruelest way to find him, his men slaughtering unarmed people while he watched from above. And Asahina and Diethart did not think that Zero was going to try set himself up as the next emperor. Asahina only suspects that Zero cannot be trusted because no ally of justice would keep so many secrets and order a massacre (Diethart only wanted a story to tell and continued to back him until it was clear that the Black Knights were going to turn on Lelouch). And that is what the Black Knights thought they were, allies of justice. That is what Lelouch said back in ep 8 of season 1 and many other occasions where they would defend people regardless of nationality (but really Lelouch’s target was Britannia).

I’m not going to argue anymore because it is too tiring proving all of your inaccuracies and using Kurogane’s blog for that is probably unfair. Besides ep 19 aired so there may be new stuff to argue about.

As you stated, Suzaku wants to atone for his misdeeds – that indeed is one reason why he is unlikely to seriosuly contemplate suicide… which brings me back to my point about ‘he doesn’t want to die without atoning for his actions’, which was noted some posts back but which you yourself have ‘conveniently ignored’. He could’ve arranged for his death… but didn’t. We also know he murdered his father, but blanked out the memory, due to the trauma of having done so. This is very much in character for him – he wants to be righteous, but at times will act in ways which are not very ‘righteous’ and then has to find a way to justify the act. This is why things in R2 are going rather badly for him – he turned in his best friend to get promoted so he could claim Area Eleven as ‘his’ area so he could enact Euphemia’s dream of a Special Administrative Zone that would allow the Elevens more freedoms than they had up to this point under Britannian occupation. What he forgot was that this SAZ would depend heavily on the willingness of Britannian (specifically, Charles vi Britannia and his court) to indulge Suzaku’s desires… and of course, he didn’t know Schneizei’s been maneuvering behind Charles’ back.

Notice how Lulu’s changed – if only somewhat – in S2, after he’s recovered his memories. At first, he was the same old bastard, although towards the middle part he seemed to have softened after confronting the determined Nunnally and realizing that she wanted something other than what he wanted to give her. Nunnally shouting for Suzaku broke Lulu’s heart – he had to realize that at that point, Zero the figure had become threatening enough that even his little sister was seeing him as the boogeyman. So, he tries to fix things by being more humane… and because he didn’t put a leash on Rolo or get rid of him, loses his NEXT ‘pet goldfish/moral pet’ Shirley, who had been to some extent Nunnally’s replacement in his reason for trying to be ‘good’ and to justify for himself what he was doing. He consulted her on things which were minor in the big picture (re: handling Tian-zi) but which affected his relations with those closer to him (Kallen, etc).

You also seem to have forgotten one important fact – the Black Knights were never really ‘the good guys’ – they were terrorists whose actions killed hundreds of their own countrymen in the name of overthrowing the oppressors until Lulu came along and gave them goals as well as targets which supported their (his) objectives versus random acts of terror. With regards to eliminating the Geass cult, which was a change of direction, may I point to you how the Allies considered German bomb factories and the scientists who were working towards weapons development to be legitimate targets? The Geass Cult shared much in common with them; the main difference being that some of the targets were children. And the Black Knights, who have by this point developed an image of themselves as ‘defenders of Japanese’ rather than merely ‘rebels taking down the oppressors and their traitorous Japanese collaborators’ started having some doubts as to whether Zero’s orders were to support the liberation of Japan (their goal) or to set Zero up as Emperor of Japan and the rest of the world instead.

That’s why Asahina and Diethard are starting to move against Zero – not because they feel that he’s going to ask them to kill more children (they’ve already done that, prior to Zero joining them) but because they feel he may be using them not to free Japan but to take it over for himself… and then move on the rest of the world. They’d be trading one tyrant (Charles vi Britannia) for another… and the knowledge of his Geass will make things worse, as it did for Kallen when she discovered that Lulu had it and underwent her own crisis of faith early in R2. Between the existence of the Geass, the possibility that Lulu ‘ordered’ Suzaku to nuke Tokyo (rather than his real order to ‘live’) as well as the information that Schneizei will feed the BK’s about Lulu and Suzaku meeting just before the disaster (collaboration with the enemy), they will abandon him… especially if Schneizei promises the BK that Japan will rule itself. Incidentally, Schneizei made the same offer to the Eunuchs during the China arc… although I don’t see how Schneizei would let them rule themselves for long; probably just long enough to weaken them and get his own forces ready. Or perhaps he was waiting for FLEIJA to be completed… which gives him a trump card over most anyone else at this point – a WMD that can do as much damage as a company of Knightmare Frames but which can be deployed by a single unit. This would give him a decisive military advantage against other nations.. just as America enjoyed after it deployed the first nuclear bomb.

Lulu -will- be taking blame this time, and likely turning his rage onto Rolo as the most convenient target. He will also likely blame Suzaku for nuking Tokyo and his own people… and himself for not having saved Nunnally. And that, combined with the BK abandoning him, will likely send him completely around the bend for a while.

For the most part, Suzaku’s doubting himself only began recently – up until he started talking with Shirley, he really didn’t see himself as doing much wrong. He could feel guilt (which is why Anya helpfully signed that Eleven’s execution orders), but he also tends to have a ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ mentality which Shirley poked a few holes in… until she died, which left Suzaku with more rage against Lulu for what he saw as his role in Shirley’s killing (thinking it was deliberately ordered, rather than the act of a psychotic boy that Lulu had allowed too much leeway). Suzaku is likely to blame Lulu completely and not take any blame… only feelings of guilt for his role in the tragedy. It fits the pattern – Suzaku has shifted blame away from himself since before he killed his own father, then went on to join the Britannian Army as a means of trying to make amends… then becoming a Knight, then becoming a Knight of One…

I really don’t see a happy ending for Suzaku, much less Lulu – about the best thing both of them can hope for at this rate is that they die rather painlessly, and perhaps with a feeling of absolution. Suzaku’s a hypocrite, and Lulu’s an opportunist who justifies his acts by trying to take vengeance for his mother and sister. None of the characters on this show, save perhaps Euphemia and Nunnally, were truly admirable or even innocent… except perhaps Millay.

Another thing you forget is that Suzaku is looking to atone through his death. Simply committing suicide does nothing to help his people. Back in ep 8 of the first season Suzaku comments how he is prepared to die to save his friends in the hotel incident. In ep 11 when Lloyd comments how Suzaku’s reason for entering the Brit military was going to get him killed, it was probably an outcome Suzaku did not mind. Finally in ep 18 when he captures Lelouch and waits for the missile strike he was perfectly willing to die there, but it has to be for a reason.

I also find your judgment of Suzaku to be narrow-minded. It basically comes down to a judgment that because Britannia is evil everyone who works for Britannia is evil. You dismiss any history of Suzaku’s decision to join the military as well as what he almost acheived in the first season. We see in ep 16 that a young Suzaku is deeply affected as he walks through a field of dead bodies (we also see that Lelouch doesn’t mind terribly much). In order to stop that he confronts his father. We don’t know exactly how it plays it out but we do know that it leaves Suzaku with a horrible feeling of guilt for acheiving his goal in an underhanded way. After he parts way with Lelouch and Nunnally he is alone and gets taken in by someone who owns a motorcycle similar to Rivalz’s (ep 6.75). What she teaches Suzaku is unknown but he joins the military afterwards. He does so to atone for his father’s death by affecting change through following the rules. This is also a time before Zero where Japanese resistance groups are carrying out guerrilla attacks that are probably killing some innocent civilians. One group in particular in ep 1 stole what they thought was a chemical weapon. One thing about joining the Britannian army is that Suzaku has to deal with the scorn of his own people (ep 5) but of Britannians as well (ep 3, 4, 6, 7, 17). It takes a lot of resolve to take the insult of both sides. It is a necessary burden to try to earn the respect of the Britannians and show the Japanese what is possible within the system.

It is actually ironic that Suzaku probably owes his rise through the ranks to Lelouch by providing Suzaku a chance to show his skill to the right people like Cornelia, Darlton and Guilford. Suzaku being charged with Clovis’ murder also caught Euphie’s eye. Because of this Suzaku not only starts to earn the respect of Britannians like Darlton and his classmates in Ashford (ep 6 for saving Lelouch and ep 18 when he becomes a knight) but also becomes a light of hope to other Japanese who see that it is possible to achieve something in the Britannian system as noted in ep 21 when Sayoko comments to Kallen and ep 22 where some Japanese cite Suzaku as the reason for joining. Unfortunately this dream gets destroyed when Lelouch’s Geass permanently activates. And with the total Japanese revolt of the Black Rebellion, Suzaku was in a totally different situation where his greatest ally and love is gone and needed another method to achieve his goal. He figured obtaining the title Knight of One was the quickest way, but Nunnally revived his old dream by trying to acheive Euphie’s goal. You will recall that in ep 8 everyone was about to start another slaughter when Zero pulled his stunt to get a million of his supporters out of Area 11 but Suzaku stopped them all as Lelouch predicted. Under Nunnally’s guidance, we see Area 11 become quite prosperous and its status changing to something more beneficial than what Lelouch left it at the end of season 1. Unfortunately Lelouch decides to bring back another war…

Lelouch has a tendency not to accept any blame. All of the deaths that he has caused were just sacrifices to create a new world for Nunnally. He commented in ep 13 of season 1 to Kallen how they had to keep killing to reach their goal to justify the previous deaths. In ep 25 he murmured how sacrificing Euphie was meaningless if something happened to Nunnally. Also, don’t forget that Lelouch’s original goal for the Geass Cult as cited in ep 11 was to capture it and gain an advantage against the Emperor. This changed when Shirley died and Lelouch blamed Geass for her death. What he got wrong is that Geass is how she died, but why is because Lelouch thought he was clever in preying on Rolo’s feelings in order to use him and an unintended consequence was Rolo killing Shirley in order to keep a relationship that Lelouch built up (this is also the same reason Rolo uses in wanting to kill Nunnally in ep 18). Lelouch ordered the massacre in a fit of rage and not as an act of justice. C.C. told him as much that they were unarmed. Dropping bombs can be morally ambiguous (ask Afghanis how they feel about air strikes that go wrong), but sending in an army to massacre everyone is definitely wrong. When Black Knight members started to have doubts, Lelouch ordered that he cannot be questioned and then lied to them about his true objective. In the aftermath, a Black Knight member, who probably enlisted b/c the Black Knights stood for justice as Lelouch constantly claims, thought they were no better than Britannians. This event is also what causes Asahina, a Holy Sword member, to turn against Lelouch. If so much doubt is forming in the Black Knights because of it, how is it a legitimate target?

The way you put it how Lelouch will blame himself for Nunnally’s death because he did not kill Suzaku is incorrect. He will likely blame others for spoiling his plan. I am not sure what Suzaku will do once I saw how he finally loses it in the extended preview.

Obviously Haesslich you hate Suzaku and all of your comments are colored in that light. I may not be completely objective, but I try to justify all of analyses with evidence from the series. I don’t hate Lelouch as a character, but I am finding how he uses people more and more distasteful. People may think he is clever, but the incident with Euphie back in season 1 changed that for me. And how he used Darlton (who I thought was a decent character who valued a person’s skill over racism) and threw his life away was another indication of how cruel Lelouch can be. Suzaku has his issues to be sure: his indecisiveness is his biggest weakness and is only made worse by how over-extended he is by being a Knight of the Rounds, Euphie’s Knight, an Honored Britannian, and Japanese. The fact that Suzaku is still questioning himself can actually be a good thing because if the right path presents itself then Suzaku is one of the most likely characters in Code Geass to take it. Whether Lelouch will take another route depends on how he takes Nunnally’s death.

All Lulu’s Geass does is rewire the brain, per the CGI shown when a Geass is laid, to make a person follow a certain set of actions… but the person has to be capable of doing so, and if the command is very general that is up to the Geassed person’s brain to figure out how to enact it. That IS the main difference between Suzaku’s geassing versus everyone else from Euphemia down; he has to decide how to live, and the Geass only kicks in when he’s in immediate and mortal danger; beyond that, the Geass doesn’t set any restrictions on his actions. If he was capable of talking about and contemplating suicide, then the Geass on him was general enough to allow him to enact a suicide so long as he wasn’t the one doing it (which would violate the “Live” command) and if he wasn’t in immediate danger. A sniper shot to the head would’ve done the trick, as would a bomb on his Frame as long as he didn’t put it there or pull the trigger to detonate it.

Beyond that, the Geass organization would be the equivalent of the doctors of Unit 731 or any team of scientists directly involved in creating or developing weapons of mass destruction – they were a legitimate target, at least so far as if one was out to completely destroy the Geass Cult and its possessors. They weren’t completely helpless, as witnessed by the children Geassing the Black Knights who showed up there; they were armed with non-conventional weapons which had the potential to be at least as dangerous as Lulu if not Rolo. Again, you keep blaming Lulu solely for Suzaku’s actions, when Suzaku has to own up for how he conducted himself up to this point – he didn’t have to take the bomb out, he could’ve fled earlier in the battle before Kallen demonstrated she could outrun him, and if he really wanted to die… he could’ve fought the Geass long enough for Kallen to finish the job. But he didn’t want to die, Kallen fucked up by not killing him right away, and Lulu fucked up by not removing the Geass or Suzaku earlier on before the pivotal moment.

Lulu WILL blame himself for this mess; Kallen will probably blame herself and Lulu as well as Suzaku for this mess. Suzaku is likely to blame only Lulu for this issue, denying that he could’ve done what his treasured Euphemia did because of a Geass, ignoring his own guilt by projecting it onto others… as he has always done. Lulu is not a good man, but neither is Suzaku – the only difference is that one knows he’s doing evil (Lulu) and admits it to himself, while the latter tries to be righteous but finds himself left with questions as to how ‘good’ he really is before rationalizing it all away.

Magnius, you don’t have to go that far back to assign blame to so many people. You could say that the situation in ep 18 got out of hand because Suzaku wasn’t assertive to Lelouch about not betraying him or that Lelouch handles perceived betrayals very poorly. In regards to how everyone ended up to episode 18, there is plenty of blame to go around. But when isolated down to why Suzaku fired FLEIJA, it is obvious that Lelouch’s Geass command to live is the reason. The main reason why I was commenting so much is because of what I thought were incorrect ideas from Haesslich on how the Geass worked and how he was blaming characters for not doing things he thought they should have done.

And Haesslich, your reason for calling Suzaku a hypocrite is not accurate because of how you believe the Geass works. If you want to call anyone a hypocrite, it would have to be Lelouch. A definition of hypocrite is someone who says one thing but acts contrary to his claims. Lelouch creates Zero to be an ally of justice but his actions are far from that goal. When he pins all of the blame of the actions in ep 22-23 on Euphie, where was the justice in that action? When they save Tianzi and Lelouch wanted to arrange a marriage between her and Ougi or Tamaki only to be shot down by the female Black Knights, how was that different from the eunuchs? When he ordered the Zero squad to massacre the Geass organization and lied to them about why so that he could feel better about Shirley’s death, how was that justice? Suzaku offered him a chance to redeem, but fate and the writers would not allow that.

Suzaku was geassed to “live” – a very general command, and one that ONLY kicks in when he’s physically in danger. And it’s one that can be resisted – Euphie did it, Lulu tried to do it before he got overwhelmed, and others have struggled with their Geasses for at least a few seconds. If he was -that- serious about suicide, surely he could’ve managed a three-to-five second struggle, long enough for Kallen to fry him in his cockpit. On top of that, as I said before, if he was really serious about dying, there were ways to arrange it. If he never truly intended to use FLEIJA, then he could’ve sortied in another machine without it. He had many, many times to make a choice up until the Geass activated… and even then, his subconscious and conscious minds had choices on how to follow the ‘LIVE’ command. You’re treating the Geass like it was a ‘word of God, all-controlling program’ which takes every contingency into account… which obviously isn’t the case, to judge by how often Suzaku’s moped around saying he wants to die, shortly before he does his supersoldier impression. Suzaku doesn’t want to die, or at least he’s afraid of death… and therefore, instead of struggling with the Geass so Kallen could do her thing as he’d contemplated, he fired FLEIJA.

He could’ve done a lot of things differently – nobody forced him to take Lancelot out with the FLEIJA weapon, and Lloyd certainly didn’t want to deploy it on Lancelot. If he’d taken Guren Seitan out, which he should’ve with all the upgrades that Lloyd wanted to show off, he could’ve won the battle without massive casualties on his own side. As Magnus points out, Suzaku’s quite aware of his Live Geass by now… which is one more thing he blames Lulu for. Kallen will have to carry the guilt for the ten million deaths on her own conscience too, though – as noted, she was too busy fucking around trying to torture Suzaku by taking Lancelot apart piece by piece rather than overwhelming him the way she did Bradley and frying him in a second. She wanted revenge, and Tokyo paid for it. Lulu wanted Suzaku to live, and now has to live with the idea that Nunnally died because of the Geass he put on Suzaku (as well as Suzaku firing the damned thing) on HIS conscience.

And so, a tragedy will play out.

Seriously, I do not believe any single character should be given all the blame. All the actors have played their parts in this tragedy of epic proportions.