Comments on: Results of Yuki vs Desu http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/ ...where a cat is fine too. Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:27:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Spanky http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40695 Spanky Wed, 25 Oct 2006 02:06:44 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40695 How much more transparent can they make it? They randomized the draw for the main tournament by a process that could (and was) verified by 2chers. They randomized the block winners, again by a process that could be (and was) verified by 2chers. They post a list of valid codes within minutes of the close of every contest; AFAIK there haven't been any complaints about someone claiming their valid vote was not counted. I don't think it's a perfect contest by any means, but transparency is not their problem. How much more transparent can they make it? They randomized the draw for the main tournament by a process that could (and was) verified by 2chers. They randomized the block winners, again by a process that could be (and was) verified by 2chers. They post a list of valid codes within minutes of the close of every contest; AFAIK there haven’t been any complaints about someone claiming their valid vote was not counted. I don’t think it’s a perfect contest by any means, but transparency is not their problem.

]]> By: wontaek http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40434 wontaek Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:42:41 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40434 My proposal, that I made in AnimeNano Forum, of 12 characters per group, 4 votes per voter, and top 4 advance much reduces the possibilities of revenge vote and gives less room for tactical voting. This format can continue until we are down to less than 20 characters left. It is not as exciting and bloody as one-to-one tournament, but I believe it is the fairest way to discern the top 2 characters for the final. My proposal, that I made in AnimeNano Forum, of 12 characters per group, 4 votes per voter, and top 4 advance much reduces the possibilities of revenge vote and gives less room for tactical voting. This format can continue until we are down to less than 20 characters left. It is not as exciting and bloody as one-to-one tournament, but I believe it is the fairest way to discern the top 2 characters for the final.

]]> By: Haesslich http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40419 Haesslich Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:45:26 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40419 dkellis: I suspect that many Suisuiseki fans voted 'for' Yuki in a way which invalidated a bunch of votes... which would explain the high number of fakes there (perhaps they had one or two Suisuiseki fans set up a macro to vote 50-100 times, for example)., or else they found another way to 'invalidate' a bunch of votes (perhaps because they all came from a certain part of North America, despite having different IPs and different ISPs, they considered it to be 'one' person even though the votes were spread out over six hours as would be considered normal, because they all happened in the wee hours on that side of the Pacific). Skane: Yeah. Right down to the loli abuse. :P dkellis: I suspect that many Suisuiseki fans voted ‘for’ Yuki in a way which invalidated a bunch of votes… which would explain the high number of fakes there (perhaps they had one or two Suisuiseki fans set up a macro to vote 50-100 times, for example)., or else they found another way to ‘invalidate’ a bunch of votes (perhaps because they all came from a certain part of North America, despite having different IPs and different ISPs, they considered it to be ‘one’ person even though the votes were spread out over six hours as would be considered normal, because they all happened in the wee hours on that side of the Pacific).

Skane: Yeah. Right down to the loli abuse. :P

]]> By: Xellos^_- http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40418 Xellos^_- Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:43:11 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40418 dkellis, why did you ever to have any faith in human nature. I lost mine Haruhi knows when. dkellis,

why did you ever to have any faith in human nature. I lost mine Haruhi knows when.

]]> By: Skane http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40414 Skane Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:45:52 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40414 Since when did human nature shine? Life is like Black Lagoon, not Pokemon. Since when did human nature shine? Life is like Black Lagoon, not Pokemon.

]]> By: dkellis http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40413 dkellis Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:16:55 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40413 I suppose it's true that one cannot easily believe something until one actually sees it personally. I had obviously heard before about all the "tactical voting" and "revenge voting" and such, but it was this matchup where I actually saw all the posts calling for people not to vote <i>for</i> Suiseiseki, but <i>against</i> Yuki. And after the results were posted, I also saw all the calls for people to vote <i>against</i> Suiseiseki, no matter whom she gets matched up with. This strikes me as being quite against the point of Saimoe. I've always believed that it's a tournament where the criteria for winning was moe. Nothing more, nothing less. Voting against a character (rather than for the opponent) would thus imply that the character is seen to be not moe anymore... which I don't think applies to any of the final eight. I believed that people would be able to put aside petty vindictiveness and uphold a sense of fair play and intelligent choices. Apparently I've been labouring under a misunderstanding all this time. My faith in human nature and the Saimoe tournament (or indeed, any Internet popularity poll) is rock-bottom right now. I suppose it’s true that one cannot easily believe something until one actually sees it personally.

I had obviously heard before about all the “tactical voting” and “revenge voting” and such, but it was this matchup where I actually saw all the posts calling for people not to vote for Suiseiseki, but against Yuki. And after the results were posted, I also saw all the calls for people to vote against Suiseiseki, no matter whom she gets matched up with.

This strikes me as being quite against the point of Saimoe. I’ve always believed that it’s a tournament where the criteria for winning was moe. Nothing more, nothing less. Voting against a character (rather than for the opponent) would thus imply that the character is seen to be not moe anymore… which I don’t think applies to any of the final eight.

I believed that people would be able to put aside petty vindictiveness and uphold a sense of fair play and intelligent choices. Apparently I’ve been labouring under a misunderstanding all this time. My faith in human nature and the Saimoe tournament (or indeed, any Internet popularity poll) is rock-bottom right now.

]]> By: wontaek http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40398 wontaek Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:04:12 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40398 >>> Perhaps we all should make our own (more transparent) version of Saimoe….. That is what I am proposing in AnimeNano Forum. The advantage of English community Popularity Contest is that many Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans, three biggest groups of the anime watcher in language, knows enough English to participate, and we have enough English speaking people who can handle other languages in order to create better help pages for people who are not confident with English. Here is the link to the forum http://www.animenano.com/forum/Anime+Discussion/Anime+Nano+Character+Popularity+contest%3F/1 >>> Perhaps we all should make our own (more transparent) version of Saimoe…..

That is what I am proposing in AnimeNano Forum. The advantage of English community Popularity Contest is that many Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans, three biggest groups of the anime watcher in language, knows enough English to participate, and we have enough English speaking people who can handle other languages in order to create better help pages for people who are not confident with English. Here is the link to the forum

http://www.animenano.com/forum/Anime+Discussion/Anime+Nano+Character+Popularity+contest%3F/1

]]> By: Kurogane Shiroikaze http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40375 Kurogane Shiroikaze Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:21:12 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40375 Well... we can't help it. This is an internet-based free voting tournament. There's bound to be a lot of foul play. It's much much harder to employ really efficient error-checking methods in this age of proxies and TOR. Much more a bigger problem than that are the problem of biased officials, which is blatant if you see the groupings. As pointed out, SuzuHaru, the biggest phenomenom this year, had *ALL* three main heroines in the *SAME* group, pretty much fishy if you notice that no other series had the same problem. Plus, Desu and Junk, unarguably the two characters with the largest fanbase of one of the more popular moé titles, were in the same group as well. Not to mention as well as Nanoha and Fate, both in the same situation. One might construe as a mere coincidence of fate, two might almost be miraculous(and funny), but three just reeks of human intervention. I'm never taking anymore of this results as a true marker of popularity anymore. Perhaps we all should make our own (more transparent) version of Saimoe..... Well… we can’t help it. This is an internet-based free voting tournament. There’s bound to be a lot of foul play. It’s much much harder to employ really efficient error-checking methods in this age of proxies and TOR.

Much more a bigger problem than that are the problem of biased officials, which is blatant if you see the groupings. As pointed out, SuzuHaru, the biggest phenomenom this year, had *ALL* three main heroines in the *SAME* group, pretty much fishy if you notice that no other series had the same problem.

Plus, Desu and Junk, unarguably the two characters with the largest fanbase of one of the more popular moé titles, were in the same group as well. Not to mention as well as Nanoha and Fate, both in the same situation. One might construe as a mere coincidence of fate, two might almost be miraculous(and funny), but three just reeks of human intervention.

I’m never taking anymore of this results as a true marker of popularity anymore. Perhaps we all should make our own (more transparent) version of Saimoe…..

]]> By: Haesslich http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40367 Haesslich Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:35:08 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40367 Yeah, that's what I'm worried about Wontaek - that they're stacking the deck in favor of Rozen Maiden, and they're structuring things (or, when necessary, flat-out lying) in order to make their chosen candidates win... especially since I'm trying to figure out how they ruled all those votes as fakes (given that the number of fakes were doubled in the Yuki vote versus Suisuiseki's). Either that, or else everyone's enchanted by the manga which presents Suisuiseki (at least initially) as a Mikuru-style pushover. Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about Wontaek - that they’re stacking the deck in favor of Rozen Maiden, and they’re structuring things (or, when necessary, flat-out lying) in order to make their chosen candidates win… especially since I’m trying to figure out how they ruled all those votes as fakes (given that the number of fakes were doubled in the Yuki vote versus Suisuiseki’s). Either that, or else everyone’s enchanted by the manga which presents Suisuiseki (at least initially) as a Mikuru-style pushover.

]]> By: Mark http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40360 Mark Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:24:17 +0000 http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/2006/10/21/results-of-yuki-vs-desu/#comment-40360 I don't really have a clue how this competition works (the Japanese vote for the character they think is the moe-est?) but Fate will win. She has to. She's awesome. ;P I don’t really have a clue how this competition works (the Japanese vote for the character they think is the moe-est?) but Fate will win. She has to. She’s awesome. ;P

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