Top wo Nerae! 2 Discussion

Top wo Nerae! 2

For those not in the know, Lunar has just released the final episode to TwN! 2. I’ve already blogged it , so check it out, but it’s based on the raw though.

Following that, I had an interesting discussion on IRC about how some of the stuff in TwN! 2 works which proved interesting enough that I decided to blog it out.

First off,

Why shoot Earth, instead of any of the other planets like Mars or Mercury?

First off, we have to start with what remaining planets that the Solar system currently has. In the 1st TwN, the Exelio incident cost the Solar System it’s 3 outer planets, except for Pluto, and Jupiter was used for the Black Hole Bomb. That leaves only the planets Mars, Earth, Venus and Mercury. Considering that Humanity’s last ditch attempt to destroy the gravity well was to literally ram a large mass at almost light speed to cause an enormous impact, Earth was the best candidate, as it is the largest planet amongst the four left. Plus logistics and resource-wise, it would faster to build Douze Mille on Earth as well.

Why did Nono just left without saying anything?

She decided to shoulder the burden of defending the Solar System herself. Besides, at the end of episode 05, their superiors were clearly ordering them on a suicide mission.

Why did Exelio arrive 6 months later, when it used warp? How did Lark reach Earth before Exelio arrived?

The most interesting and thought-provoking question. As established from TwN! , FTL(Faster than Light) travel causes time dilation, thus making the time passed for the user who is in FTL very very slow, but the normal world outside still experiences normal time flow. For instance, in TwN!, the Exelio battle lasted maybe about 10-15 minutes of Noriko and Kazumi’s time, but 6 months had already passed on Earth. The same thing also applies here, so the Exelio VGW(variable gravity well) actually only warped itself 10-15 minutes ago when it warped out, but 6 months had already passed in the normal time.

As for how Lark arrived before Exelio did, I assume that current human technology may have sub-light speed travel already, with speeds near the speed of light, which would of course allow them to reach Earth earlier, but without the time dilation effects, since time dilation only takes place when going above the speed of light. Mass also I think must be taken into account as well, since the Exelio VGW is extremely enormous and should suffer from some dampening.

How did Nono warp from Pluto to Titan in an instant then? She didn’t seem to suffer from time dilation then.

There are 2 ways, IMHO, to explain this, which basically deals with how “warp” could be defined as, either as FTL conventional travel, or spatial manipulation.

First of all, assuming FTL conventional travel, Nono did not warp in an instant. Most probably she reached Pluto sometime before the Titan VGW started up and was notified by the space monsters, which would have surely known that the Titan VGW is the real enemy, and thus she warped sometime before the Titan VGW attacked started.

Second, if her warp was of the spatial manipulation type or to put it in simpler terms, a teleport. It isn’t hard to think that back in the TwN! times, teleportation could have been explored, and most perhaps Nono was equiped with one, maybe experimental prototype in her. It’s also easy for her to use teleportation considering her mass and size, since the concept of teleport mainly deals with disassembling the data at the current spatial position and rewriting it simultaneously at the desired spatial postion, so it could have been done, especially since Nono has the capability of creating micro black holes and is equiped with a degeneration reactor.

Well, that’s all for now. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong and if there’s any comments/suggestions/theories/criticisms. Man… discussing this had me wikiing like mad and kept me up till 7 in morning ~.~.

12 Comments

  1. Naobi Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 1:44 pm

    In episode 5 the VGW is badly injured… (he take a planet in the face…), and in episode 6 he don’t seem to have any “scar”… and he is bigger than before.
    So ? I don’t think the VGW directly come to earth, he probably go somewhere else for repair himself and “upgrade” himself.
    Think about it : the full earth fleet traveling at sublight speed take more time to reach earth than the VGW with is warp jump ? i mean…what’s the point of using a warp jump ? for him the travel was almost instantaneous but he reach earth 6 month after everyone ?
    Also i don’t know if you’re submitted to time dilatation when you do a warp jump… you aren’t in the normal universe, so you are (theoricaly) not submitted by the law of the general relativity…
    And for Nono… well it’s the same ;) she “just” made a warp gate for herself and the bustercorps.
    Honestly i’m disappointed with all this story of time dilatation, in TwN 1 time seemed to speed up when you used warp jump, but in TwN 2 it seem to be “instantaneous”. I think than the technologie used in TwN 1 wasn’t the same, it was more like the “hyperspace”.
    I deeply apoligise for all the error/sentence that don’t make any sense, i’m not a native english speaker ^^
    And don’t forget guys : http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=godkillsei1.gif

  2. tj han Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 6:19 pm

    I think warp and faster than light speed travel are different things. I cannot remember the details now because I’ll have to go back to the science lessons extras of Top 1.

    The current earthlings do not have warp technology nor do they have FTL speed. Excelio VGW probably went to some bar to chill out and recover, perhaps buy a new shirt, before running the errand of eating Mankind.

    And why is the monster called Excelio?

  3. Demian Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 6:25 pm

    Maybe you can answer this one for me. When the Earth begins moving at superspeed or whatever it’s definately leaving it’s orbit. However the moon doesn’t seem to change at all. Wouldn’t Earth’s moving cause it’s orbit to change, or Diebuster hitting seems like it would move it more. So were the animators lazy or do just not know enough space physics?

    And I still say the moving Earth plan, while maybe veasible storyline wise, still really messes with the flow of the episode. Still a great show though.

  4. Myssa Rei Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 6:41 pm

    Naobi: After the moment Nono reawakens to her Buster Machine 7 (most of episode 5), it becomes blatantly clear that most of the tech she possesses (from her warp abilities to her power to generate thousands of micro-black holes instantaenously, to her command of the Buster Corps) are considered ‘Lost Tech’ by the humans of that time period… Either they voluntarily erased all records of it (plausibile), or forgot all about it (also likely) as Humanity focused on rebuilding after the Carneades Project (the final mission shown in the first Gunbuster).

    TJ Han: The black hole is called Exelio because it was created when the battleship Excellion (the mother ship of the Gunbuster) was sacrificed to destroy the Solar System’s resident nest of STMC before they could get a chance to locate Earth. Most of the events detailing its creation can be found at the end of Episode 05 of Gunbuster, while a video of the actual assault can be found on Youtube (under the heading The Battle of the Solar System’s Final Defense Line, or simply type in Gunbuster, whichever you prefer).

    Demian: The removal of Earth from its orbit is definitely going to cause catasthropic changes, both to its neighbors as well as its native environment. However, do take note that, in the timeline of Gunbuster, this takes place about 12,000 years in the future… Surely the Humans, sealed tech aside, have already found ways to counter such a massive change in the Solar System’s makeup.

  5. NaviX Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 8:09 pm

    I felt the ending was not as good as it could have been. One of my gripes is how the Diebuster, the most powerful Buster Machine could fail to defeat Exelio and instead Dix-neuf and Nono (as her BM7 self) defeat Exelio with the kick attack?

    Other than that and a few other minor gripes, TwN2 was a great show.
    Can’t wait for TwN3, if they ever make one.

  6. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    September 28, 2006 @ 11:02 pm

    >>I cannot remember the details now because I’ll have to go back to the science lessons extras of Top 1.

    Same here. I need to go back and grab my TwN! from my old PC.

    >>However the moon doesn’t seem to change at all.

    It will, but not immediately. It will take quite a while for it to change orbits. The moon’s orbit isn’t only tied to the Earth’s gravity, but also the Sun’s. I assume that if Earth is not moved back, Moon would probably take over the Earth’s orbit path.

    >>how the Diebuster, the most powerful Buster Machine could fail to defeat Exelio and instead Dix-neuf and Nono (as her BM7 self) defeat Exelio with the kick attack?

    Diebuster was made up of the millions of the Solar System Defense Force units, each acting like a cell. However, enormous it is, it still doesn’t contain as much power potential. Think of it as more like a heavy armor suit being worn by an agile swordsman. In RPG terms, this would be like increasing DEF at the cost of AGI.

    As for how, Diebuster was defeated easily by Exelio, the answer lies in the degeneration reactor. As established by TwN!, degeneration reactors are one of the most powerful energy sources created by mankind, with their power output per second equivalent to the Sun’s power output per second.

    In essence, one degeneration reactor is equivalent to one Sun and back in TwN!, the Gunbuster was powered by *TWO* of these babies and it had enough power to destroy whole clusters of the space monsters, INCLUDING the VGW types, which can be classified as Mothership-class.

    So, in the end, Exelio was defeated by both Nono and Dix-Neuf, who each had a degeneration reactor. I assure you that is it enough to kill off more than just Exelio, but also if another few thousand of it’s kind suddenly warped in as well, the Dix Neuf-Nono tag team would have no problem finishing those off as well.

    Such are the awesomeness of the degeneration reactors.

  7. berz Said,

    September 29, 2006 @ 2:06 am

    looks like an interesting show to watch but…. without seeing TwN! is it possible to enjoy TwN!2?

  8. Kurogane Shiroikaze Said,

    September 29, 2006 @ 3:35 am

    Not really, since TwN! 2 is a sequel of sorts to TwN!

    But trust me, both shows are worth their hype to watch.

  9. forte Said,

    September 29, 2006 @ 9:16 am

    My understanding is that Nono warped from Pluto to Titan by using spacial compression. She compressed the space between pluto and the VGW using a black hole, moved a small distance, and then decompressed space, flinging herself and the buster corps to the Titan VGW. This is different from FTL.

  10. Zoloat Said,

    September 29, 2006 @ 10:32 am

    The instantaneous warp is not something new to Gunbuster. Notice that whenever Nono uses it, space “shatters” around her when she arrives. She is literally ripping a hole in the universe and jumping through it. Buster Machine 3 had the same warp technology, notice how during episode 6 of the original space shatters and boom, it’s there. We can only guess that the technology was invented for the purpose of getting BM3 to the battlefield as fast as possible, since the Eltreum and it’s fleet seemed to lack similar technology. It probably became standard equipment for Buster Machines afterwards (but maybe was too costly to equip on ships or deemed unneccessary once Mankind isolated themselves?) so when the BMs all dissapeared, the technology was lost.

  11. Myssa Rei Said,

    September 29, 2006 @ 8:22 pm

    Zoloat has a point… The warp system that Nono uses has more in common with the system that brings the BM III to the rest of the Carneades/Galaxy Center Throw Fleet, e.g. it provides instantaenous transit across space-time (I distinctly remember Captain Tashiro even commenting on it — that technology has advanced a lot since he left Earth). Take note that the Buster Corps also display similar warp abilities…

  12. James Said,

    November 1, 2006 @ 4:51 am

    I have a question about the ending for TwN!2. I haven’t seen TwN! so I don’t really know what the ending meant. Who is on board the Buster machine 1 and 2 and why were they gone? And why did they return after such a long time?

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